48 thoughts on “Plastic and Raw Milk? Never!”

1. Interesting read. We’re in the north of England and are lucky enough to have a farm providing raw milk just around the corner. They operate a vending machine. You insert money and the milk is dispensed by the litre. They sell reusable glass bottles for this purpose as well as plastic options. The milk is kept at an appropriate temperature by the machine and the nozzle and shelve area used to refill are behind a stainless little door. Every time the door is closed the area is sanitised. It is up to you to sterilise your containers for refills. The system works well and it’s very popular with locals. If not already being used, I wondered if this system would work for some of the farms in the US?

   • I have seen this system being used in Switzerland as well, and it is so wonderful. Unfortunately this is not available in the US. I am going to look into it further, as it would take away all my headaches and make it so much easier to make our raw milk available. Thank you for your comment. 🙂

   • Please tell me where in the north you get this fab raw milk in glass bottles? We’re in the northeast…are you anywhere close to Northumberland, by any chance? Thank you!

     • Well, we are in the US, in Colorado, and we milk our own Guernsey cows. I hope you can find some delicious raw milk in the UK. 🙂

2. Thank you for your perspective! I’ve been a snob and avoiding purchasing raw dairy from my local store because it’s in plastic. I just got off a 4-year vegan diet and am now doing WAPF diet. Since I haven’t had dairy in so long, I figured I could wait to find a source that carried it in glass. This article changed my mind. I’m going to get the raw dairy in plastic from my local store tomorrow. Thank you.

   • You are welcome! Honestly, I think it is a very sanitary way of bottling raw milk. If you prefer when you get home, just pour it from the plastic into a sanitized glass mason jar. But be aware, many people now use the white plastic mason jar lids, as opposed to the old fashioned metal lid with the ring (the lids are BPA free lined.) Don’t use the plastic ones, as you cannot get a good tight seal when you close it, and air can get into the jar, not good.

     I’m happy you are getting back on raw milk. 🙂

3. I buy raw milk in plastic and transfer into glass as well. I wonder why it is the milk lasts so much longer in glass as to plastic…

   • I think it is a great option, sterilized plastic for the farmer to use, then we you can transfer into glass. I don’t like to store in plastic either, as plastic can leach chemicals regardless, so glass is always a safer long term option.

     • I have a question i like to milk in plastic containers its not as heavy for me to carry it in so all is well if just temporally using it but do i really have to sterilize it or a good wash is enough?

       • It is really better if you can get a stainless steel bucket, as plastic is very difficult to really get clean. If you must use a plastic bucket, make sure it is a new one, and does not have any scratches inside, and you can clean it well with bleach at night, rinse well and dry.

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5. Thanks for the great article. I am a newby to raw milk, but loving the journey. Please can you share your method of making Kefir. Have you already written about it? Many thanks.

   • Dear Becky, thank you so much for stopping by and sharing that you are on a raw milk journey. Nothing better in my book! Yes, I have written a lot about kefir and here is my basic post on it https://grassfood.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/kefir-the-worst-part-is-the-pronunciation/ . I do make kefir everyday and it is a wonderful way to preserve the raw milk for many things, and I use kefir whey in a lot of things as well. It has been a while since I read this post, and so if there is anything in it that does not make sense or you need any further clarification on kefir or raw milk…, don’t hesitate to ask. Take care, Jamie.

6. I don’t know why people keep saying all conventional Dairys are confined and the cows are suffering . If you where to open the gates on a free stall barn so the cows could go out on a green pasture. They would stay in the barn until it was night and cooling off. But then there are farmers like me hews cows are on pasture except at milking time . A cow is a motherly animal so the better she is treated the more milk she can produce. I can not speak for every dairy in America but the most of us are hard working caring people.

   • Dear James, Thank you so much for your thoughts and perspective. I wholeheartedly can say that every dairy, from those who are conventional huge dairies with hundreds of cows, to grass-fed dairies like yourself, to families who have one cow, are all hard-working, caring people. I do believe that the conventional method of huge factory dairies, where the cows are confined, no access to pasture, GMO and other unnatural feeds and heavy antibiotics, given hormones to produce unnatural amounts of milk, and being milked three times a day causes the cows to suffer. Hopefully more dairies like yourself who can allow the cow to experience motherhood, keep their calf on them for as long as possible and have access to grass can thrive and grow. Thanks for stopping by.

7. Our raw milk farmers just changed protocols after getting one too many chipped/dirty jar back: we cowshare owners wash and sterilize our own half-gallon jars, label them with our name, and return them to be filled for the next pickup. That way, we get our own jars back each time, so the responsibility for cleanliness lies with us, the owners, not the farmers who take care of our cows and milk them. There is also a plastic jug option for those who prefer; costs 45 cents more per gallon.

   • What a great idea! Good for them. I’m so grateful for all the raw milk farmers, and shareholders, out there.

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9. I recently stopped purchasing raw milk from a family farm close to me because I can taste whatever it is they use to sanitize their glass milk jars. Although I would prefer to get my milk in glass, I’d rather be able to drink my milk without the bitter taste left behind from less than adequate rinsing. Thank you for this article, I feel much better about the milk I get in plastic jugs from a different farmer.

   • I think this is an important concern as well. Now you know that your milk is clean, and since you prefer glass, why don’t you just transfer your milk from the plastic into your own clean glass jars when you get home? 🙂

10. It really isn’t a question in my state, Minnesota. The only legal way to obtain raw milk here is to go directly to the farmer with my own containers, they fill them for me, but are not responsible for their level of cleanliness. I am. So I use glass mason half gallon jars. Or I used to before the farmers whose milk I purchased decided to stop milking.
    I have given the legality a lot of thought, and of course down in the more populated area of our state, there has been some humdrum regarding the legality of doing group pick-ups. I wish they’d all just quiet down and stop attracting attention to the issue, and here’s why.
    My milk is (was) raw from mostly grassfed cows (Impossible to grassfeed year round when there is snow on the ground 5 months of the year). It cost me a 17 mile drive and $4 a gallon.
    IF the people down in the cities have their way, the government will get all involved, they will start poking around in places where they don’t belong, and the cost of my milk will rise. Lucky me. Maybe I can pay $16 a gallon like my sister in California. Of course, she can pick it up in a grocery store. But I am perfectly happy with my level of responsibility remaining with me. I chose our farmer for their practices, they are smallholders with only 2 dairy cows, and they got the cows so they could provide themselves with milk. I wash my own containers so I never have to wonder if someone else did a good enough job, or how much time, energy or money it cost them. And if I contaminate my own milk, I have no one to blame but myself.
    Or, I can pay $16 a gallon to have the government nosing around in my kitchen, telling me what is right to eat, and nosing around in my farmer’s barn, telling them what is right to feed their cattle. Well, gosh. Thanks for keeping me “safe”. Now that I can no longer afford that healthy food, can I please have some government cheese and margarine?

    • Wow, Jill, that is interesting. Yes, it sure would cut down on the responsibility of the farmer insuring that the glass containers were clean, if the shareholder like yourself cleaned and brought your own containers. There are so many factors in each State, and of course each farm within those states has different challenges and benefits that would not be the same for other farmers. haha, “government cheese and margarine” No thanks! 🙂

    • “(Impossible to grassfeed year round when there is snow on the ground 5 months of the year)”

      Ruminants who receive hay during the winter are still considered “grass fed.” The term is in opposition to “grain fed,” and it does not require fresh grass in order to realize the benefits.

      • We have snow on the ground for that long as well and our dairy cows, sheep and even pigs are grass-fed (the pigs also get scraps and milk.) We give hay and alfalfa and this year found a silage fermented alfalfa called Chaffehaye which our animals love.

11. I buy one gallon per week. It comes fresh from the farm and is in a plastic gallon jug. I then take it and divide it out, (only 2 of us) and put it into glass jars. Some stays in the fridge and the other goes into the freezer for later in the week. Keeps it fresh and yummy!!! 🙂

    • Transferring it to glass jars is also important when you want to skim the cream off the top. I’m curious why you feel the need to freeze your other half gallon, if you are using it within a week? Our raw milk stays perfectly fresh up to a month. In any case, raw milk certainly is yummy. Thanks for stopping by!

      • I like the milk if it is less than a week old. After that the taste changes. 🙂

12. So it appears the argument for plastic comes down to the cost of labour and machinery for cleaning glass.

    This is because you don’t directly pay for all the costs associated with plastic — they are “externalities” that we all pay for!

    The pollution from the manufacture and disposal of plastic is an externality that the person bottling the milk doesn’t pay — but perhaps people downwind or downstream from the plastic plant or dump pay for with increased cancer and other maladies. Sorta takes the smugness out of the health aspect of raw milk, doesn’t it?

    I’m a fan of Mark McAfee, but he has a serious conflict of interest, and an article from Organic Pastures defending their use of plastic should hardly be taken as impartial evidence. He says washing would produce too much waste water — ah, the externalities again. I wonder how much water is used “somewhere else” in the manufacture and disposal of plastic containers.

    A local dairy uses old-fashioned square bottles, and we gladly pay the deposit on them in order to use them. Our customers appreciate them. We require them to be thoroughly cleaned when returned (or face a $2 “dirty bottle” charge), and we re-clean them thoroughly.

    If you drink or produce raw milk at least in part for ecological reasons, please consider rejecting plastic — if for no other reason, they ain’t making any more dinosaurs, and someday the petroleum, and the plastic, will be all gone.

    • Dear Jan,

      I want to thank you so much for your thoughtful comments and insight, and apologize for being unable to respond until now. I agree with you that while basically the argument for plastic comes down to the cost of labour and machinery for cleaning glass, the reality for many small dairy farmers is just that: the costs, equipment and labor for cleaning glass are so great, some farmers must either choose plastic or no longer be able to afford to stay in business. Raw milk in sterile plastic, or no raw milk at all. There is only so much time in the day and money in the bank.

      I also agree with your argument that there are many detrimental costs associated with the production of plastic, but also computers, cell phones, gasoline, toilet paper, pet foods, all processed foods and packaging, clothing, furniture, shoes, paper… We do live in the 21st century and are making a great mess out of this world and I do believe we can each make a difference by choosing local foods, supporting organic farmers, growing and making as much food ourselves as we can, minimizing waste where possible and recycling and much more.

      I certainly disagree with your comment that while in many of the 21st century products I listed above we either cannot or choose not to do without, that plastic somehow “takes the smugness out of the health aspect of raw milk.” Many mothers who see great health improvements in their family are not being smug by continuing to support a farmer to stay in business if he has to switch to plastic containers or discontinue providing this healthy food.

      Why in the world would you say that Mark McAfee has a serious conflict of interest and that his article to his raw milk customers is not valid evidence as to why some farmers can no longer afford the costs of glass and are choosing plastic? He has the right to say that $1,000,000 for the required equipment… is too much.

      I have my own personal cows I milk and do use glass for all the reasons you refer to, but I also want to support the many small dairies and shareholders who value raw milk for their families health and the viability of being able to stay in business. I am happy that your dairy has enough help and equipment to properly wash and sanitize your square bottles. Many farmers I know do not have that luxury and have had to face this crossroads, and also want to insure that their containers are sterile and safe for their shareholders.

      I do not know how to honestly answer the fact that we as a species do need to cut back on plastics, poisons, and all the things which are destroying the planet. I do not see how we can completely reject all plastics or all modern manufactured items… but we can try as hard as we can to do our part in creating less waste and pollution. Am I a hypocrite in saying that I buy organic carrots in a plastic bag, or support local raw milk in a plastic jug, or type on a computer that is made from God knows what? I guess I am, but I am trying.

      I really do appreciate you bringing up the dangers and horrors of plastic, as we all need to be more aware and reject when we can and also recycle. I liked your link to how to thoroughly clean a milk bottle and that you charge a $2 fee for a dirty bottle charge. I hope your dairy is able to keep up with the glass cleaning and purchasing and that you are able to continue to supply your shareholders with healthy, safe raw milk. Cheers! Jamie

      • Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Jamie.

        To those who claim the cost of glass is too high, I have a proposal: ask your customers!

        Just ask them, “Since plastic manufacture and waste cause vast amounts of pollution, and because plastic is a non-renewable resource, would you be willing to pay $x more for your milk if it came in deposit, reusable, glass containers?”

        If people really drink raw milk for the health benefits, I bet they’d jump at the chance to use glass for a relatively small incremental cost. I know our customers really appreciate it.

        • Jan, again, I do not think it always boils down to just charging more for the milk to use glass, it is also a matter of actually having the time and extra labor to do this work. Some farms just do not have enough help, and cannot afford to hire more hands. I think most customers would definitely choose glass if they had a choice, and I know those who are shareholders in places where the farm can provide glass do appreciate it. When it comes down to the realities of farms providing safe milk in plastic, or no milk at all, customers will choose the raw milk. It is not always black and white and many people do not understand why raw milk is so much higher than government subsidized commercial milk, so to ask them to pay even more is difficult in many communities.

    • Well, Jan….producing glass is just as bad as producing plastic for our ecology from what I read about glass making. I use both in my milk selling business. Cleaning jars that customers don’t clean very well does require more water to clean them. It’s bad enough when I use my milk machine. Rinse (2 gals water), CIP cleaner (3 gals water), Rinse (2 gals), Acid Wash (3 gals) and Rinse again (2 gals). That’s 24 gals of water a day. Then milk bottles (1/2 gal and qts). I go thru a lot of water and feel that is a detriment to the ground water around here.

      • “producing glass is just as bad as producing plastic for our ecology from what I read about glass making…”

        I don’t necessarily agree, but for sake of argument, there is one huge difference, even if the ecological impact of production is the same: the glass is used over and over again, whereas the plastic is legally used but once, then discarded.

        Washing glass need not use lots of water, nor nasty chemicals. We use dishwashing soap and vinegar. Neither is bad for septic systems nor groundwater.

        One thing that people seem to not want to understand: there is no “away” to which you can throw things. This planet is the only one we have. When you “throw away” something, it’s going to impact someone else, somewhere, sooner or later — maybe your grandchildren.

        • Jan, Thank you again for this. You are so right and we really do need to do everything we can to stop this horrible throw away mentality. I completely agree. I hope you can understand the dilemma with some farmers having to choose the lesser of two evils, plastic over going out of business. Hopefully those that must have to purchase things in plastic, or other harmful packaging…, will make an extra effort to recycle and eliminate waste in other areas.

    • Another consideration with plastic is your department of agriculture may prefer plastic jugs because they are guaranteed sterile if handled properly, they have a tamper-evident seal, and the very small opening means that it is unlikely that anything will get in the milk during jugging. Glass may be cooler, but the reality is that your farmer probably may prefer plastic jugs for the ease of handling, cost, and reduced breakage.

      • Thank you Diane, I agree. It is interesting that many states have laws where a raw milk shareholder must bring their own containers to the farm and this puts the cleanliness of the container on the shareholder and not on the farmer. Sterile plastic jugs do reduce risk of contamination for farmer and shareholder and the farmer has more time to take care of his cows.

      • “Sterile plastic jugs do reduce risk of contamination…”

        Of bacteria, perhaps. And yet the risk of chemical contamination is greatly increased — the newer the plastic, the more volatile components there are to leach out.

        I’ll take my chances with bacteria that millions of years of evolution has prepared me for, rather than petrochemicals that haven’t even been around long enough to test properly.

13. Oh thanks! And thanks for following 🙂 I like forward to reading more from yourself as well. I will definitely contact her! 🙂

14. Thanks for all the links!

    • Hi Sara, I’m so glad you like the links as well. It is great to have so many great raw milk resources to share.

15. Interesting that you posted this today. I’ve finally taken the step to ordering some raw milk after about a year of umming and ahhing over the whole thing! The whole plastic bottle thing concerned me too but I feel better after reading this, plus I know that you can freeze raw milk as well which you can’t do if it’s stored in a glass bottle.

    Excited to try raw milk for the first time!

    • I’m so happy that you are going to get some raw milk. Why such hesitation, if I may ask? I hope you love it as much as we do and that it opens up a whole new world of health and the finest in cream, butter, cheese, kefir, yogurt, whey… yum!

      • Well I first started hearing/reading about raw milk when I got onto reading The Healthy Home Economist. At the time I was still living back home in Australia but back then no one (at lease of who I knew) were really into the raw milk thing so I just let it pass (now they sell it as ‘bath milk’ there). Anyway fast forward to about 2 years ago when I moved to the U.S. and was still reading The Healthy Home Economist and then getting into a paleo based diet and the raw milk thing kept popping up again and again… we were living in Michigan and I couldn’t really access any raw milk or at least I’d have to drive a long way out to a farm to get some. Anyway am not living in England and there are plentiful farms here (not sure if they all sell raw milk) but found a good source online so I thought I’d try them out and then hopefully find a farm I can buy from directly.

        I’m very excited to try it and I will be sure to come back and let you know all about my first experience!

        • Thanks for writing back Naz. I was curious if it was an issue of being nervous about raw milk or something like that. I could not tell from your reply if you said you were living in England right now. There is a wonderful girl, Ariana, who lives in England and blogs about it and also raw milk, so perhaps she can hook you up. http://and-here-we-are.blogspot.com/2013/02/wyken-market-where-to-find-raw-milk-and.html

          If I read that wrong and you are in the states, you can go to http://www.realmilk.com/real-milk-finder/ and search for a raw milk farm, or even try on Craigslist. You will be in heaven once you do find some. Did you see my article about my raw milk experience? https://grassfood.wordpress.com/2012/12/09/why-i-left-civilization-to-milk-my-own-cow/ You can tell I’m a real raw milk freak. 🙂 I have been doing Primal for the last three months and am so excited about it as well. I couldn’t do Paleo because I love raw cream… so much. 🙂 Please keep in touch and tell me how your search and delight is coming along. Cheers, Jamie.

        • No worries! And yes I’m in England now, been here just over a month and was in America before. I will check out the links you’ve provided (thanks!)

          As I mentioned I’ve ordered some online from these guys hookandson.co.uk but would like to ultimately find a close by farm I can get the milk from. As for the whole paleo primal thing, well I don’t like labels much BUT if I had to then I’d say I eat more primally because I can and do like to eat raw cheeses, yoghurt etc.

          Thanks for your help!

        • I just had a chance to go to your beautiful blog! http://cinnamoneats.com/ and I look forward to reading more. You will love getting hooked up with Ariana in England and I hope you can connect. 🙂

    • If milk is stored in a jar with no neck (sides straight up and down…like the freezer canning jars), the jars won’t break. If there is any sort of neck, the jar will end up splitting….been there, done that with my raw milk. Now I use one use plastic milk jugs to freeze milk for my customers over winter.

      • Thanks for stopping by. That is a good point about dairies having to use plastic jugs to freeze milk in. 🙂

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